Anyone using [SIP] VoIP systems?

[bnc]

Nice to see that more options are available than the standard bundled stuff. What you have accomplished is similar to what I would like to do (although the numbers that are ported to my SIP account/FRITZ/phone/whatever) will originate from other regions. Luckily with SIP, the origin and termination of the phone connections doesn't matter much.

One question, why do you advise against Cablecom (despite the family and friends mobile phone deal)? Is it the variable bandwidth issue with cable systems in general or something more specific to this provider?

Thanks!

bnc

[AbFab]

	Quote:	bnc
	<snip> One question, why do you advise against Cablecom (despite the family and friends mobile phone deal)? Is it the variable bandwidth issue with cable systems in general or something more specific to this provider?

For me the shortcoming with Cablecom's digital phone service is that it is not up 100% of the time. It is the same as its cable internet service, which has improved greatly, but still drops out. I would not like to have all my phone eggs in a basket that was not always there...

[audiodruid]

I have to say I spent nearly 4 months working in the US last year and my wife and I looked at all the providers , digital network ( sorry cable com no way ) swiss comm also didn´t stand up to inspection.

In the end we used the open public Tcomm hotspots in starbucks in the US and SKYPE .

I also have a swisscom wifi network card which had no problem finding me a network all over the US but has almost no chance in Germany.

Home has broadband from tele2 , wireless router for the family , 5 wired ports to the office , recording studio , workshop and the guest accomodation.

I have also installed a music/media server on the network and use the wifi stand alone radio from terratec ..

However back to phones , i had bills of 900 swiss in the month for the same work period in 05 and in 06 I was at like 200..... thakyou skype and I got to see the kids on the web cam too brilliant

[RSargeant]

	Quote:	bnc
	... One question, why do you advise against Cablecom (despite the family and friends mobile phone deal)? Is it the variable bandwidth issue with cable systems in general or something more specific to this provider? Thanks! bnc

Hi, because I've heard from so many people about Cablecom's legendarily bad service. By definition all systems have variable bandwidth because the "last mile" connection, be it ADSL or DSL over a TV cable have contention, that is the connection bandwidth is shared by many subscribers. So what you get depends on how active your neighbours are.

And Swisscom have a "friends and family" deal as well. I use it and we save a fortune. Basically all calls between home and our two mobiles are free against a small monthly fixed charge, so I've programmed my VoIP box to route only these calls via Swisscom.

RS

[Lob Rockster]

to balance the complaints, I've had 4 outages in 6 years of cablecom internet and 3 outages in 3 years of digital phone. But I don't need to complain about good service now, do I?

[Gardan]

Hi there, having only recently registered and introduced myself I have to say I'm struggling!!!I have been reading englishforum.ch website for a couple of months now and I am about to commit on the TV, internet and Landline front so maybe if I can work the phone technology out I can save money and gain benefits like a U.K. telephone no!!

I have read this thread and coming from a totally non technical background I have absolutely no idea about what you are doing but the outcome I think would really benefit me. I work from home but all my calls are international. I was going to buy a wireless Skype phone but now I am not sure...

[Lob Rockster]

Gardan - from where would most of your calls come?

[Gardan]

Hi, most of my calls come from the U.K. although I do call Liechtenstein a fair bit and deal to a lesser extent with other parts of Europe

[Lob Rockster]

With SIP-based phones, you can turn off your computer and they still work.
With Skype ones, most need the computer on (but I do think there are some 802.11 models on the market).....

Outbound calls will be quite cheap - your inbound market is where you will "benefit" from provisioning a local number so they don't pay an arm and a leg.

So from my experience, I've got a SIPGate.co.uk account and a Linksys PAP2 working nicely. I do have some other steps I'd like to take so that I can junk my phone here and have two VoIP numbers running into my house loop but that's a little way off (so SWMBO tells me )

[Gardan]

Thanks Lob Rockster!! I have just made a massive leap in understanding... I think what you are saying will benefit me... I will have a good look into it. One thing though and it may seem a bit dumb but can I receive faxes? I work with some quite traditional professions so things often have to be done by fax...

[AbFab]

I'd like to put in good word for Skype here:

I realise that Skype is not the boffin's choice, but for a simple system that my 80-year old father managed to download, install and call me up all within half an hour, you can't whack it. The clever bighter even connected his web can and filled the computer screen with his cheery face.

It eats data transfer for those on a limited package, it's useless on dialup. But if you want a simple, effect system for talking to your folks at the other side of the world, or Channel, and seeing their faces move, Skype's your baby...

[RSargeant]

Hi all,

I stumbled on an excellent service that I'd like to pass on. It's VoIPStunt (lord knows how they thought of that name!) and like other Voip services is very cheap, free in some cases. But there's a difference. You only use your PC to set up the calls. Once dialled, you speak using your normal house phones.

For me, one disadvantage of Skype et al was being tethered to my PC and a crappy headset. OK, you can buy Skype phones now, but I've already got regular phones and that's just another piece of electronics around the house.

Here's how it works. You log in to http://www.voipstunt.com/, register and download a small client. Once installed, start that and enter your regular home number and also the number you want to call. VoIPStunt will then tell you if your call is free, or the actual cost, which are very low. Click "OK" and your phone rings. Pick it up and then the number you want to call is rung by VoIPStunt. From then on you just talk as usual! No headsets and the call quality is if anything better than regular Sisscom and far better than Skype. From a technical viewpoint I can understand the quality difference. VoIP suffers when internet speeds are low, and this is usually worst on the upstream link from your home. Couple that with the electrically noisy PC and SFr 25 headseat you are using and there goes the quality! VoIPStunt bypasses all that.

Some calls are not free. I'm currently spending most weeks in a hotel in Belgium and my wife and I chat most evenings for a call setup charge of €0.05 and €0.01 per minute. We did the same on a recent trip to Singapore for the same charges.

I've just noticed new instructions on e web site on using SIP accounts with VoIPStunt. That means I can program my VoIPStunt account details into my FRITZ! VoIP box and then calls dialled to my Belgian number will automatically be routed via VoIPStunt and even the PC bit becomes unnecessary.

Ain't competition wonderful?

Richard S

[lawfrench]

	Quote:	RSargeant
	Hi all, For me, one disadvantage of Skype et al was being tethered to my PC and a crappy headset. OK, you can buy Skype phones now, but I've already got regular phones and that's just another piece of electronics around the house.

Another disadvantage of skype is that for some countries there is a real connection problem, like for call to US you are heard by your counterparty, but you do not hear them.

[muze7]

I prefer VOIPdiscount, although it is the same company really, but with Discount calls within Switzerland to landlines are free! Quite amazing. And many other countries in Europe and Canada are free too. You get 300min a week free.

[CharvelInVesenaz]

When you say that Swisscom "accepted my defection", do you mean that you changed the "preselection"? I assume you still have to pay the "last mile" Swisscom chf25.00 monthly fee for the fixed line?

[CharvelInVesenaz]

	Quote:	muze7
	I prefer VOIPdiscount, although it is the same company really, but with Discount calls within Switzerland to landlines are free! Quite amazing. And many other countries in Europe and Canada are free too. You get 300min a week free.

How do you find their service? I've tried the VOIPBuster version, and the person I was calling couldn't hear a thing on the other end. Sounded to me like "you pay for what you get".

[RSargeant]

	Quote:	CharvelInVesenaz
	When you say that Swisscom "accepted my defection", do you mean that you changed the "preselection"? I assume you still have to pay the "last mile" Swisscom chf25.00 monthly fee for the fixed line?

No and yes. No, I didn't change by preselection, I changed by porting my 5 old Zürich numbers from Swisscom to a SIP provider so I could then use the old numbers as VoIP numbers. The benefit is that I don't have to give out "new" phone numbers, people can call me as before on the old numbers and are totally unaware they are inbound calling over VoIP and people still see my usual number when they accept incoming VoIP calls from me.

Yes, because at present in Switzerland if you want ADSL, you need a copper pair fixed line from Swisscom, and the cheapest is SFr 25 per month. Since my VoIP works over ADSL... Whether that will change later this year when local loop unbundling finally starts to happen remains to be seen. In the interim, it's not so bad having to pay that SFr 25 because i can take adavantage of Swisscom special offers like Friends and family, and I also use that line for sending analogue faxes which don't work via VoIP. The FRITZ! is programmed to send emergency (144 etc.) calls via Swisscom too, but I hope I don't have to take advantage of that facility!

Richard S

[dino]

	Quote:	CharvelInVesenaz
	How do you find their service? I've tried the VOIPBuster version, and the person I was calling couldn't hear a thing on the other end. Sounded to me like "you pay for what you get".

not true... sounds like you haven't quite got your configuration figured out

I use SIP from my PC, on my Nokia E60 cell, and most recently on a dedicated SIP phone I got for the house... in the last 5-6 months, I've had bad connections only about once a month on average.

Being expats with family and friends spread across the globe, we have always spent a fair chunk of change on the phone... but ever since i moved over to SIP, my monthly average has dropped from about chf 250 to chf 50 or so.

can't complain about that, can ya ??

[bnc]

Hey Richard,

You've been using the Fritz!Box for a while now... From your experience is there anything else that compares to Fritz?

What is your opinion / prediction about the new Fritz 7270 that will be available after CeBit. ADSL2+, VDSL, 802.11n, built-in DECT base station. Bells and whistles or real improvements?

http://www.avm.de/de/Presse/Informationen/2007/2007_02_01.php3?linkident=mehr

bnc

[CharvelInVesenaz]

	Quote:	dino
	not true... sounds like you haven't quite got your configuration figured out I use SIP from my PC, on my Nokia E60 cell, and most recently on a dedicated SIP phone I got for the house... in the last 5-6 months, I've had bad connections only about once a month on average. Being expats with family and friends spread across the globe, we have always spent a fair chunk of change on the phone... but ever since i moved over to SIP, my monthly average has dropped from about chf 250 to chf 50 or so. can't complain about that, can ya ??

I use Skype (headset), YahooVoice (headset) and I used WebCallDirect (callback) last night without problems. Maybe it was just the day I tested it.

[RSargeant]

	Quote:	bnc
	Hey Richard, You've been using the Fritz!Box for a while now... From your experience is there anything else that compares to Fritz? What is your opinion / prediction about the new Fritz 7270 that will be available after CeBit. ADSL2+, VDSL, 802.11n, built-in DECT base station. Bells and whistles or real improvements? http://www.avm.de/de/Presse/Informationen/2007/2007_02_01.php3?linkident=mehr bnc

That's a hard question to answer bnc, since I'm only using a Fritz! and don't have a lab full of other gear to compare! All I can say is that I'm extremely satisfied with the Fritz!, which has worked perfectly, without a break and has helped save me a ton of money on phone bills.

Looking at the "new" Fritz! features in turn:

ADSL2+ / VDSL. Well, for most folks who only have say 4MBits available to them at reasonable cost, ADSL2+ / VDSL is irrelevant for now. In practice what will happen is that it will become standard and available at a "no cost" premium, it's effectively free with that new Fritz! box already. For now it's only significant for IPTV like Bluewin TV and at present that's only available from Swisscom. As Swisscom equips the local telephone exchanges with ADSL2+ / VDSL DSLAMs (the piece of gear in the exchange that talks ADSL to the customers) then doubtless the higher speeds will become available to customers through other ISPs. Of course, there's always a bottleneck somewhere, so we shouldn't expect say 8MB to actually be faster than 4.

802.11n. Many of the above comments are also true of 802.11n. 802.11g at 54 MB is fast enough for most people surfing the web. The current ADSL link is far slower and that at least is the bottleneck at present. I only see an issue where people want to stream video across wireless from a server also on their home network, and not many do that at present. Even "g" is quick enough for that providing the actual link speed is fully realised, which is usually not the case because of interference, steel in walls etc. (that's why I have cat 6 wired gigabit in my new place). Again, this will be "for free" anyway, so you may as well take it.

Built-in DECT - much more interesting - a new function! This really rounds out the VoIP functionality of the Fritz! boxes. I already have DECT cordless phones, but on my older Fritz! I achieved it by having a Siemens Gigaset SX DECT base and 2 Siemens DECT 4000 handsets. This gives me simple PBX functionality, i.e. I can answer an incoming call on my desk phone, the Siemens SX base, which is not cordless, and then transfer the call to my wife's cordless, so she can go out on the balcony to yatter and smoke there. I have a couple of non-DECT phones also connected to the Fritz! but they are outside the PBX functionality of the Siemensm, i.e. I cannot transfer calls to/from them. I expect that having DECT in the Fritz! would remove that limitation and also mean fewer bits of electronics. However, the door intercom of our apartment block is also tied to the Siemens Gigaset (we can answer/open the door downstairs from any phone) and it'll be interesting to see if that functionality makes it to the Fritz! I suspect not, and I wouldn't want to lose that.

So for me, the first two are incremental improvements I'd expect for free, the last is a real improvement.

Richard S

[ricardo]

I've been using SIP for a while with a Sipura Adapter and have a nice config (from my point of view).

All my calls go out through voipcheap.com at very good rates. I have a Zurich geo number for incoming calls, and subscribe to voxbone.com to have a Lisbon/Portuguese number in here (good for family back home).

I use Cablecom for Internet, but avoid paying 20CHF for nothing...

Cheers

[foguang]

hi all,

i am not sure if you all know this, i just came across with this website: http://www.freecall.com/

it's pretty cool, uh?

[dino]

	Quote:	foguang
	hi all, i am not sure if you all know this, i just came across with this website: http://www.freecall.com/ it's pretty cool, uh?

yes, as cool as voipbuster, and voipcheap, and justvoip, and sipdiscount.. and about a dozen others - all run by the same company -Betamax

it's the very same product, ofered at multiple price points...

[AbFab]

	Quote:	foguang
	hi all, i am not sure if you all know this, i just came across with this website: http://www.freecall.com/ it's pretty cool, uh?

Freecall is not quite as free as its name suggests. See their FAQs

	Quote:	http://www.englishforum.ch/member.php?username=http://www.freecall.com/en/faq.html#2
	Q: Why is my connection constantly broken after a few minutes? A: If you want to enjoy FREE and UNLIMITED calls to our free destinations, please upgrade your account by buying credit. Your credit will remain untouched as long as you call our free destinations. Credit in your account remains active for 90 days after your last purchase (unless stated otherwise).

So you have to pay to use free calls and if you don't use the credit you lose it in 90days...

[Yogan]

Hello,

I have an internet connection with cablecom.
I purchased Siemens Gigaset SX753 WLAN DSL modem/router and
(CablecomLand line only) I installed sip phone with this router.
My SIP phoning time always limited up to 3mnite 32 second only.

When I used Siemens Gigaset SX541 WLAN DSL modem/router with Swisscom ADSL (Swisscom Phone line ADSL Internet) My SIP phoning time always unlimited.

Any members know how to get(seting) unlimited phoning time.
with land line (Cablecom) under Siemens Gigaset SX753 WLAN DSL modem/router

Yogan

[switzernet]

	Quote:	Lob Rockster
	I'm thinking of trying http://www.switzernet.com/ for line 2 as they offer free calls into fixnet CH and also to landlines in UK and USA. This just about covers me

Hello everybody,
If you would like to test the VOIP via Switzernet, I provide here 5 SIP accounts. Each account is a Swiss phone number: 021-550-9835, 021-550-9836, 021-550-9837, 021-550-9838, 021-550-9839. The credit limit of each account is about 5 CHF. The usually free destinations (CH, DE, FR, US, UK, etc) are not free for these accounts (to avoiding infinite usage in case of abuse). Use G711 (U-Law or A-Law = PCMU or PCMA) codec if you have enough bandwidth. The 5 accounts:
user=41215509835, pass=7391;
user=41215509836, pass=8358;
user=41215509837, pass=5251;
user=41215509838, pass=3869;
user=41215509839, pass=6885;
To avoid conflicts please send a message when you reserve an account for testing. Technical details: SIP Server="128.179.67.35"; Voice Frames per TX=1.
Configuration example for BudgeTone: http://switzernet.com/public/070712-files/070712-budgetone.htm
Best regards

[Polorise]

	Quote:	RSargeant
	Having browsed through this thread, I'd like to add my experiences, which seem quite different to those already mentioned. Some may find them usefulRS

belatedly "discovered" your post ... nice one, obviously cannot give you a great big thankoo ... but have some green blob instead

[gregv]

Since this subject has popped up again, I thought I'd add my 2.6 rappen.

I'm using a Siemens C450IP, with an extra handset which I find works nicely. I'm using SIPphone as my provider, and ipkall.com which provides a Seattle phone number for friends to call in on.

It is very nice to be able to have this device when I have turned off all the computers in the house (excepting a few little server devices and the router). The sound quality is decent enough, though you can get echos if folks are using their computers, just like with Skype. I did have to configure my router to disallow incoming calls during the night after getting a few wrong numbers.

[Stuart]

Just wanted to add my experiences so far:

Ive just ordered the Siemens C455 IP phone which allows for up to 6 handsets and 6 SIP accounts from different providers to be set up. I will pick it up tonight and will set it up with two incoming numbers (CH and NL) and a different account for outgoing calls.

Ive opened an account at sipcall.ch for a free CH number (yes, i did get one), opened an account at budgetphone.nl and got a local dutch number (10 Euro's a year) and will use voipbuster.com for free outgoing calls to landlines in most EU countries. Im thinking of adding a UK number as well since I have some family in London as well.

If anyone is interested I can post further details in the near future.

Stuart